July 8, 2012 at 12:24 pm #501
as OHIO JOAD coordinator, I am aware that there are some issues with how the EJN was run this year. The team event-which was cancelled-was problematic in how they created the teams-I have proven mathematically, that team events were there are teams of 2 archers-have an incredible bias in favor of the better archers. secondly, some people are upset with foreigners shooting in the elimination rounds-two of my archers, Ian and Owen, lost to foreigners and while the final rankings take out the foreigners, you cannot really make things equitable
I have aired two proposals on AT and want input before I present a position from OHIO to the USAA JOAD committee
1) Proposal one-the EJN be run JUST LIKE THE ADULT EVENT
a) the 144 arrow qualification round picks the US National champion. Foreign kids shoot in the GUEST DIVISION JUST LIKE ADULTS
b) the elimination round is now called the US JR OPEN. it will have no relevance to national championships though if JR USAT wants to use if for CADET AND JUNIOR that is acceptable-JUST LIKE THE ADULTS.
2) the TEAM EVENT is not required
3) if the team event is required each team has the same average ranking-as close as possible of the archers
currently, with 22 archers the first team is 1 and 13 (No 24) while the 7th team is 7, 16, 18. The first team has an average ranking of 7 and archer with a predicted arrow value at least a point higher than team 7 which has an average archer value of 41 divided by 3=almost 14-twice as high
under my system you average the value of each archer and each team would average out to the same
LET ME KNOW-my club is behind these proposals
JimJuly 15, 2012 at 11:36 pm #507
I am not sure about the logistics of this. I know a few of the kids on our teams were in the same type of position as ian, and although I don’t necessarily find it “fair” it is how things fall sometime. What are the logistics of figuring out average’s for 300+ kids? Is that realistic for them to be able to do that? We already know they have other problems they are trying to work out. Molly was told she wasn’t allowed to shoot in the team round. When she got to the event she was then told the girls(there were only three in her division) were going to get to shoot against the boys. This was then put up to a vote by the girls and 2 of them chose to just shoot against no one but get the medal(Molly wanted to compete). Then they were told they were not allowed to shoot at all. Then they were told they would shoot in 15 min. And finally told they wouldn’t shoot till 4:30. This is when I walked over and grabbed Denise. USAA seems to be making positive strides but I don’t think this is the battle that needs fought. Even the kids I had there that got completely dominated, enjoyed having the chance of shooting against the best.
I honestly don’t know what the answer is. I know it isn’t fair and I think your answer to it is a good one. I just don’t believe they can pull it off. I think that all days should be required or not included at all. I also think there should be a guest division for the non-USA kids however I am not sure how the open rd should be conducted. I think this would be a good discussion with people at the state outdoor. Unfortunately there were very few people from ohio that it really affected, so the feedback wouldn’t be first hand experience.July 16, 2012 at 10:49 pm #509
my solutions are easy-you just run EJN the exact same way you run the nationals. IF 144 arrows is enough to crown the national men’s champion its enough to crown the cub girls compound champion. then the elimination round is an OPEN event meaning it doesn’t count for the national championship
you cannot accurately use placements when some kid gets knocked out by a foreigner
as to the teams-its easy. they already have a formula but that silly formula only works if the number of kids is divisible by three. when there is a team of two it should be (for 22 kids where the average value is 11.5) one shooting with 22 versus one shooting with 13 because 24 doesn’t exist.
anyone with a 8th grade math course education can easily devise the formulaJuly 16, 2012 at 11:06 pm #511
so why have a team round? If the team round doesn’t count for anything, most of the kids will leave or take the day to rest. Why not do a double fita instead with all 4 distances? This would really be an effective way to find the best. The team round didn’t count for anything but participation this year… but if you didn’t shoot it you were out of contention. I want my kids to shoot against the foreigners. If they get their butt kicked then I hope they work harder next time.
I get where you are coming from Jim, but you know better than anyone with the amount of work that goes into a tournament calculating all the teams out to avg within a point or two will be extremely time consuming and difficult. Why don’t you find someone to make an excel spreadsheet to do it and then make the recommendation? If you can’t find someone I might be able to. They were just having such a hard time with everything else I would hate to see the tournament fall apart because they forgot how to divide.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.